Okay. Yeah-- I can keep quiet. [ His nod is quick, confirming. He's not sure who else he'd want to tell but close friends-- or trusted friends, and he can think of a few people that at least seem concerned about the safety of Etraya who'd be worth being in the know. More hero-esque types, or literal knights. Gorgug doesn't trust everyone in Etraya, and understands the need to keep things on the down low.
Or just that most people wouldn't know what to do about the information, even if they were privy. Ordinary folk, who don't go to adventuring schools, who don't dally with information.
But there's something loosening in himself; partially to do with Harold Finch's own readiness, but he's still semi-fresh off talking with Aurora. Ideas are in his head, and he's buzzing a little in place; opportunities in front of him, and a possibly more secure way of organising defences for Etraya. He won't have to just rely on his own networking, and being the only guy to stay alert.
Still, even with that buzzing, he's more than aware about the world around them. About, probably.. ]
I'm good if you want to get started or talk more, but I know that, John and everyone are gonna leave, so maybe if you wanted to hang out with them before they have to go, or do anything before that... we can get started when they're gone? But it'd be cool to hear more about your kind of-- surveillance and communications. What you do.
[ Nerd a little, that is. He's never seen the man's toys before. Who can blame him for being curious? ]
I'd rather get started -- I'll just be working on this now instead of socializing anyway, [ he says dryly, well aware he's a workaholic when he has a project that interests him. ] If you'll wait here for a moment, I can fetch my computer and show you what I've done already.
[ Because he isn't a surveillance and communications specialist with no surveillance and communications set up already, that's for sure, limited though it is. It's really testament to how much Harold has grown to accept the circumstances in Etraya that he makes the offer. By preference he's ferociously territorial of his intel networks, and for good reason -- too easily abused, like he'd said -- but there's more than a little sense in sharing it here.
If nothing else, he adamantly refuses to perpetuate the notion that they'll end up in competition with one another to save their worlds. Harold finds the whole idea detestable, and he'll do whatever he can to promote cooperation with the other residents. ]
[ Because while the library might be considered unstaff to some, the library is still very much Harold and John's, from Gorgug's perspective. And he isn't about to make himself comfortable in any way without it being suggested.
The front desk is fine, anyway. He can always lean against it while he waits for Harold--maybe even take out the notebook he took notes in during and after his conversation with Aurora. It would be good for keeping track of anything Harold and him talk about now.
But also, he wants to see Harold's shit. He wants to see what this guy's got!! ]
[ Harold disappears upstairs and comes back with a leather messenger back across his shoulder, and he guides Gorgug to a nearby staff room before he unpacks it. It looks a little lived in, in that Harold and John regularly use it as a place to have privacy at the library without inviting anyone into their living quarters. There's tea and a coffee maker and mugs, and a few unshelved books scattered about that someone was reading and then forgot.
It's all very casual as he seats himself and starts unfolding his laptop. ]
I've set up a small surveillance network for the library, with automated notification of certain events. I thought we could start there as a demonstration.
[ He'll scoop up his notebooks when he's told there's a change of location, a nod given, and Gorgug follows his lead. A staff room does mean there's a table and chairs, and Gorgug, now, doesn't mind taking a seat. Setting down his things, and taking the one beside Harold to have a better look at his laptop and set-up. ]
Yeah? Okay. [ He mentioned an automated notification of certain events... ] Your cameras can figure out what people are doing in the library?
[ The demonstration will show him, surely, but Gorgug remembers them talking about AI, and didn't Harold have something to do with that? His world has it, anyway, except that Harold didn't deal with making them bodies.
But security with an AI functionality to it is pretty cool--it'd be like one of his bots without the animal exterior. Probably smarter, given Harold's familiarity with that and security. And age on top of that experience. ]
[ Compared to the Machine, it's hard to feel like he's making any kind of A.I. here -- something he feels incredibly strongly he would not do again -- but it is technically true. Harold isn't going anywhere near far enough to give it a personality or identity, but the fact remains that what he's programmed is rudimentary artificial intelligence. ]
Not the cameras; the program I made that uses the cameras. Detecting behaviors is far easier than judging what to do with them, [ he answers, opening a window with an array of live camera feeds. ] So I just have it alert me if it picks up anything of interest. Same for audio input.
[ It's far more practical than having to listen to all those hours of recordings, or to know there's something somewhere and go digging. That was the whole point behind the Machine, initially. Harold could code a primitive form of it like this in his sleep by now. ]
[ It's said with blatant amazement, like an idea that never occurred to Gorgug to do, even with Aurora and her large brain somewhere inside the hospital controlling everything--his bots have been kept separate, individual. This AI may only have so many privileges through the computer, but it's still cool, and while the live feeds are showing, Gorgug's thinking, if Harold doesn't already have an idea in mind-- ]
You want me to set up tricks for it to find? [ There's a notch of volume he's lost, lowered, like the AI might be listening to this idea right now! ] I can go out and-- nothing, nothing dangerous. See if it catches some.... unless you have some around.
[ He trails and interrupts himself in his offer, not wanting to get ahead of himself and interrupt anything Harold might already have set. He had to train it, right? Unless he trained it through his own knowledge--and that's something Gorgug's still working on himself, especially when it comes to putting together an AI through simple code than with a touch of magic.
And even with magic, he hits plenty of walls. Needs to go back and tinker and readjust their intelligence to react, like he wasn't opening up his brain enough when making theirs. Too much overthinking, and not enough access to data. ]
[ Whatever his feelings now on what had happened with the Machine and its creation, Harold had gone down that path in the first place because he genuinely loves working on it. He had, actually, painstakingly spent years training the Machine, from chess games to ethics to reading human intent. He'd gone so far as to make his own unique programming language that the Machine was coded in; employing it here for detecting violent acts in the library and alerting him is trivial. It was to the point that this very simplistic system didn't take much training, more testing -- confirmation and tweaking, but no real need for new development.
But he smiles freely at Gorgug's enthusiasm, twisting awkwardly in his chair to face him better. His neck doesn't turn on its own anymore so he has to shift his whole body to face someone. ] This computer isn't an A.I., [ he clarifies. ] There's a server rack in my residence responsible for running a very basic intelligence. We'll need to expand to some redundant back-ups if we're going to be trying to monitor all of Etraya.
[ He doesn't want to chance something happening to him, or to one of his servers, taking the whole thing down. ]
As for testing, we'll need to do something like that for the broader network, yes. The library is a contained and well-defined environment; something outside of the status quo is relatively simple to pick up on. We'll need much more complicated parameters for what you're interested in.
[ Oh. A bigger brain, somewhere else. Gorgug hums, a short note when Harold corrects him, understanding enough about servers to know what he means. It's not really a let-down, with still the end result the same.
Should he let his owl bot see through his security? ...unfortunately, all of his bots are weird. Ugh. Maybe another day. He can't trust that thing, even if it is his security project.
Gorgug won't let himself get too distracted. They'll need a wider net for data collection, and he considers the testing they could do, while also acknowledging the differences between the way they program. Eyes moving back to the laptop screen, while he's also considering a path forward. ]
...I got computers and programming to help me work with translating different machine coding. When I build a bot, I have to design its brain by...knowing what my intent is, with its body, and what it needs to know, and teaching it more after its built the same as-- machine learning? I read books on, letting it download data and learn from wider networks-- we kinda have something similar, but, my stuff is-- I've been learning for myself. For school. So I didn't care about... feeding it data outside what I gave it.
[ He pauses, pinching his lips together and explains, what he's trying to explain: ] If we can work servers with your knowledge and my bots, and we use the tools I got for translating different machinery, maybe we could-- use the way I can teach bots to help it learn quicker? And maybe they can learn from you, too-- if we link their brains up. Their crystals. If we're setting up security around the perimeter of Etraya first, I think-- I could teach them a lot to begin with. What to look out for... we could both have access to them?
[ He looks at Harold, his gaze wandering sometimes as he gets through his words, a slight scrunch to his brows as he wonders if Harold's following what he's thinking, if he seems interested in the method. They can show each other what they do, but how they can translate their different expertise into a workable project is bound to be work. Either a disaster or a success. Or is this overcomplicating it?
But Gorgug sees a possibility in putting the two methods together. Adding, as an additional thought: ] I'd be able to install arcano protection with crystals, too. They can be put into...motherboards. Parts like that.
[ Harold's eyes are practically lighting up as Gorgug keeps talking. He can see the possibilities here, too, and he's been in Etraya long enough to be far past skepticism over magic. Gorgug himself was a big influence in his acceptance of that, and he spares a thought to consider later if they should bring Jayce Tallis in on this as well. Harold isn't totally sure he's trustworthy yet, in that naïveté can be just as dangerous as malice, but he seemed very assured of his capabilities in melding technology and magic. ]
We'll have to proceed cautiously, [ he says out loud, partly as a reminder to himself against his burgeoning enthusiasm; Harold is always advising caution. He definitely wouldn't recommend hooking up any of Gorgug's semi-sentient bots to a surveillance network right away for a whole host of reasons. ] This is uncharted territory -- but it does have enormous potential.
I strongly advise we keep the network intelligence wholly separate from your bots, for security reasons if nothing else. They should communicate, of course, but we want to expose the network intelligence to as little outside access as possible.
[ Is he getting suckered into setting up another Machine...? The thought is highly uncomfortable. But no -- Harold knows how much that entails, and he isn't going to go that far. Even if he has to damper some of Gorgug's own enthusiasm to ensure it. He just can't explain his reservations without getting personal, so he hopes he can come across as older, wiser, and more risk averse from simple experience. ]
I'd love to learn how your crystals work, [ he adds with utter sincerity. ] Perhaps experimenting there is a good first step.
[ Gorgug nods first to the idea of keeping the network separate. He's not even sure how any of his past or current constructions would handle access to so much information, except for Cloaca--taking the opportunity to express itself to anyone and everyone both its faults and Gorgug's own achievements by repeatedly sharing about how much it sucks, and how much Gorgug rules.
We don't think about how it came to be programmed that way, and why it still comes out even now.
But what they have here is a potential: for both a means of communicating away and off Aurora's network, but also for guarding, security. Gorgug is far more comfortable with the latter, even if the project itself has been overwhelming in his head from the get go (and still, he's wanted to do it anyway--he hates the idea of being fucked with without a chance to defend himself). But while he's the one to put forward this idea, to explain mixing their two strengths together, he does duck his head, his voice becoming-- shy. ]
Okay. [ ... ] I don't show people the way I work a lot, so-- but if we know the kind we want... something that can watch outside, and detect things, and stay hidden, I can make one and-- I'll show you, I guess, when I activate it? But its shell... [ He brings out his hands, a loose cupping shape. ] Its body-- it's kind of, uh, the work on the body... helps calibrate the crystal when I fix it up, too. I'm putting my magic into something when I make it.
I know that's different from-- other AI. But-- but I think the two can mix, [ he adds hurriedly, not wanting to damper their good mood here.
But this is also--personal, and it feels exposing in a way that's different from showing his workings to his teacher, or discussing them with Riz. Harold doesn't even know magic, but he knows technology, and it's the worry of showing the inside and having the flaws potentially be perceived, the parts that Gorgug decides is good enough for now, that he'll work on later. It's showing a part of his mind, too: how for every bot he makes and their function, he needs to still understand everything he wants for them, on top of giving them a body that can fulfil those needs. A bird that knows how to fly, and has the wings to properly do so.
It's nerve-wrecking! H-he's gotta make his best bot yet here! ]
I don't share my work very often either, [ Harold admits, smiling slightly to soften the exchange.
He's experienced enough that he doesn't balk at doing it when it makes sense, like now, but he certainly doesn't seek out collaborators. Acting as a mentor or teacher, though... that he's done quite a few times. And he well understands how deeply personal someone's work can be, so he treads gently. ]
We'll both have to figure it out as we go. I'm not intending to make a traditional A.I., so coming up with something new would be my preference in any case.
[ He nods, not entirely sure what a traditional A.I. would be for Harold (not what he's got watching the library, probably?), but if he's not going for tradition, Gorgug can't argue regardless. But there is a thought, an idea as he glances at the screen of the laptop, and that he has a server already somewhere... ]
Do you... want to do a test run, with-- in here? [ Gorgug points, first at the laptop, and then pointing upward. ] If you have a set up, we could-- I could make your library a defender. An observer? Something small-- a bird?
[ It's Harold. Of course Gorgug's going to suggest a bird! ]
If we hook it up to your cameras, then it can-- it can check the area. Have its own camera in its eyes. Something simple to begin with, but we can.. upgrade it, later. If you wanted to.
[ If he'd even want to keep it? ...but making a tiny bird would be kinda cute. And um. Cool! ]
[ There's a kneejerk reflex in him to refuse, Harold's innate enthusiasm dampened over time by loss, but he pushes past it. It just scares him to think that he's here doing this again. He'll have to decide on some very clear bright lines for himself before he gets too deep into it, lines he won't go past... observing and not defending, indeed. He can't bear to put any kind of weapon into a computer's hands.
But working with Gorgug makes it a little easier, because it's so wholly different from anything he's done before. Harold said non-traditional but what he meant was new. He needs to do something new.
A robot bird is, well, entirely new. And so despite himself, he's deeply intrigued. ]
I've never done something that has its intelligence in a physical body, but it's a good idea. I wonder how convincingly birdlike we could make it? [ Harold muses. ] Having some that are obvious and some that are hard to spot would be the preferred arrangement... [ People might notice the obvious ones and miss the subtler ones. ]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Or just that most people wouldn't know what to do about the information, even if they were privy. Ordinary folk, who don't go to adventuring schools, who don't dally with information.
But there's something loosening in himself; partially to do with Harold Finch's own readiness, but he's still semi-fresh off talking with Aurora. Ideas are in his head, and he's buzzing a little in place; opportunities in front of him, and a possibly more secure way of organising defences for Etraya. He won't have to just rely on his own networking, and being the only guy to stay alert.
Still, even with that buzzing, he's more than aware about the world around them. About, probably.. ]
I'm good if you want to get started or talk more, but I know that, John and everyone are gonna leave, so maybe if you wanted to hang out with them before they have to go, or do anything before that... we can get started when they're gone? But it'd be cool to hear more about your kind of-- surveillance and communications. What you do.
[ Nerd a little, that is. He's never seen the man's toys before. Who can blame him for being curious? ]
no subject
[ Because he isn't a surveillance and communications specialist with no surveillance and communications set up already, that's for sure, limited though it is. It's really testament to how much Harold has grown to accept the circumstances in Etraya that he makes the offer. By preference he's ferociously territorial of his intel networks, and for good reason -- too easily abused, like he'd said -- but there's more than a little sense in sharing it here.
If nothing else, he adamantly refuses to perpetuate the notion that they'll end up in competition with one another to save their worlds. Harold finds the whole idea detestable, and he'll do whatever he can to promote cooperation with the other residents. ]
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[ Because while the library might be considered unstaff to some, the library is still very much Harold and John's, from Gorgug's perspective. And he isn't about to make himself comfortable in any way without it being suggested.
The front desk is fine, anyway. He can always lean against it while he waits for Harold--maybe even take out the notebook he took notes in during and after his conversation with Aurora. It would be good for keeping track of anything Harold and him talk about now.
But also, he wants to see Harold's shit. He wants to see what this guy's got!! ]
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It's all very casual as he seats himself and starts unfolding his laptop. ]
I've set up a small surveillance network for the library, with automated notification of certain events. I thought we could start there as a demonstration.
no subject
Yeah? Okay. [ He mentioned an automated notification of certain events... ] Your cameras can figure out what people are doing in the library?
[ The demonstration will show him, surely, but Gorgug remembers them talking about AI, and didn't Harold have something to do with that? His world has it, anyway, except that Harold didn't deal with making them bodies.
But security with an AI functionality to it is pretty cool--it'd be like one of his bots without the animal exterior. Probably smarter, given Harold's familiarity with that and security. And age on top of that experience. ]
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Not the cameras; the program I made that uses the cameras. Detecting behaviors is far easier than judging what to do with them, [ he answers, opening a window with an array of live camera feeds. ] So I just have it alert me if it picks up anything of interest. Same for audio input.
[ It's far more practical than having to listen to all those hours of recordings, or to know there's something somewhere and go digging. That was the whole point behind the Machine, initially. Harold could code a primitive form of it like this in his sleep by now. ]
no subject
[ It's said with blatant amazement, like an idea that never occurred to Gorgug to do, even with Aurora and her large brain somewhere inside the hospital controlling everything--his bots have been kept separate, individual. This AI may only have so many privileges through the computer, but it's still cool, and while the live feeds are showing, Gorgug's thinking, if Harold doesn't already have an idea in mind-- ]
You want me to set up tricks for it to find? [ There's a notch of volume he's lost, lowered, like the AI might be listening to this idea right now! ] I can go out and-- nothing, nothing dangerous. See if it catches some.... unless you have some around.
[ He trails and interrupts himself in his offer, not wanting to get ahead of himself and interrupt anything Harold might already have set. He had to train it, right? Unless he trained it through his own knowledge--and that's something Gorgug's still working on himself, especially when it comes to putting together an AI through simple code than with a touch of magic.
And even with magic, he hits plenty of walls. Needs to go back and tinker and readjust their intelligence to react, like he wasn't opening up his brain enough when making theirs. Too much overthinking, and not enough access to data. ]
no subject
But he smiles freely at Gorgug's enthusiasm, twisting awkwardly in his chair to face him better. His neck doesn't turn on its own anymore so he has to shift his whole body to face someone. ] This computer isn't an A.I., [ he clarifies. ] There's a server rack in my residence responsible for running a very basic intelligence. We'll need to expand to some redundant back-ups if we're going to be trying to monitor all of Etraya.
[ He doesn't want to chance something happening to him, or to one of his servers, taking the whole thing down. ]
As for testing, we'll need to do something like that for the broader network, yes. The library is a contained and well-defined environment; something outside of the status quo is relatively simple to pick up on. We'll need much more complicated parameters for what you're interested in.
no subject
Should he let his owl bot see through his security? ...unfortunately, all of his bots are weird. Ugh. Maybe another day. He can't trust that thing, even if it is his security project.
Gorgug won't let himself get too distracted. They'll need a wider net for data collection, and he considers the testing they could do, while also acknowledging the differences between the way they program. Eyes moving back to the laptop screen, while he's also considering a path forward. ]
...I got computers and programming to help me work with translating different machine coding. When I build a bot, I have to design its brain by...knowing what my intent is, with its body, and what it needs to know, and teaching it more after its built the same as-- machine learning? I read books on, letting it download data and learn from wider networks-- we kinda have something similar, but, my stuff is-- I've been learning for myself. For school. So I didn't care about... feeding it data outside what I gave it.
[ He pauses, pinching his lips together and explains, what he's trying to explain: ] If we can work servers with your knowledge and my bots, and we use the tools I got for translating different machinery, maybe we could-- use the way I can teach bots to help it learn quicker? And maybe they can learn from you, too-- if we link their brains up. Their crystals. If we're setting up security around the perimeter of Etraya first, I think-- I could teach them a lot to begin with. What to look out for... we could both have access to them?
[ He looks at Harold, his gaze wandering sometimes as he gets through his words, a slight scrunch to his brows as he wonders if Harold's following what he's thinking, if he seems interested in the method. They can show each other what they do, but how they can translate their different expertise into a workable project is bound to be work. Either a disaster or a success. Or is this overcomplicating it?
But Gorgug sees a possibility in putting the two methods together. Adding, as an additional thought: ] I'd be able to install arcano protection with crystals, too. They can be put into...motherboards. Parts like that.
no subject
We'll have to proceed cautiously, [ he says out loud, partly as a reminder to himself against his burgeoning enthusiasm; Harold is always advising caution. He definitely wouldn't recommend hooking up any of Gorgug's semi-sentient bots to a surveillance network right away for a whole host of reasons. ] This is uncharted territory -- but it does have enormous potential.
I strongly advise we keep the network intelligence wholly separate from your bots, for security reasons if nothing else. They should communicate, of course, but we want to expose the network intelligence to as little outside access as possible.
[ Is he getting suckered into setting up another Machine...? The thought is highly uncomfortable. But no -- Harold knows how much that entails, and he isn't going to go that far. Even if he has to damper some of Gorgug's own enthusiasm to ensure it. He just can't explain his reservations without getting personal, so he hopes he can come across as older, wiser, and more risk averse from simple experience. ]
I'd love to learn how your crystals work, [ he adds with utter sincerity. ] Perhaps experimenting there is a good first step.
no subject
We don't think about how it came to be programmed that way, and why it still comes out even now.
But what they have here is a potential: for both a means of communicating away and off Aurora's network, but also for guarding, security. Gorgug is far more comfortable with the latter, even if the project itself has been overwhelming in his head from the get go (and still, he's wanted to do it anyway--he hates the idea of being fucked with without a chance to defend himself). But while he's the one to put forward this idea, to explain mixing their two strengths together, he does duck his head, his voice becoming-- shy. ]
Okay. [ ... ] I don't show people the way I work a lot, so-- but if we know the kind we want... something that can watch outside, and detect things, and stay hidden, I can make one and-- I'll show you, I guess, when I activate it? But its shell... [ He brings out his hands, a loose cupping shape. ] Its body-- it's kind of, uh, the work on the body... helps calibrate the crystal when I fix it up, too. I'm putting my magic into something when I make it.
I know that's different from-- other AI. But-- but I think the two can mix, [ he adds hurriedly, not wanting to damper their good mood here.
But this is also--personal, and it feels exposing in a way that's different from showing his workings to his teacher, or discussing them with Riz. Harold doesn't even know magic, but he knows technology, and it's the worry of showing the inside and having the flaws potentially be perceived, the parts that Gorgug decides is good enough for now, that he'll work on later. It's showing a part of his mind, too: how for every bot he makes and their function, he needs to still understand everything he wants for them, on top of giving them a body that can fulfil those needs. A bird that knows how to fly, and has the wings to properly do so.
It's nerve-wrecking! H-he's gotta make his best bot yet here! ]
no subject
He's experienced enough that he doesn't balk at doing it when it makes sense, like now, but he certainly doesn't seek out collaborators. Acting as a mentor or teacher, though... that he's done quite a few times. And he well understands how deeply personal someone's work can be, so he treads gently. ]
We'll both have to figure it out as we go. I'm not intending to make a traditional A.I., so coming up with something new would be my preference in any case.
no subject
Do you... want to do a test run, with-- in here? [ Gorgug points, first at the laptop, and then pointing upward. ] If you have a set up, we could-- I could make your library a defender. An observer? Something small-- a bird?
[ It's Harold. Of course Gorgug's going to suggest a bird! ]
If we hook it up to your cameras, then it can-- it can check the area. Have its own camera in its eyes. Something simple to begin with, but we can.. upgrade it, later. If you wanted to.
[ If he'd even want to keep it? ...but making a tiny bird would be kinda cute. And um. Cool! ]
no subject
But working with Gorgug makes it a little easier, because it's so wholly different from anything he's done before. Harold said non-traditional but what he meant was new. He needs to do something new.
A robot bird is, well, entirely new. And so despite himself, he's deeply intrigued. ]
I've never done something that has its intelligence in a physical body, but it's a good idea. I wonder how convincingly birdlike we could make it? [ Harold muses. ] Having some that are obvious and some that are hard to spot would be the preferred arrangement... [ People might notice the obvious ones and miss the subtler ones. ]
Yes-- let's start with that.