Yeah. I can't give you guys special treatment about this. It wouldn't be fair. If I did I'm willing to bet other adults would bitch about it and this whole thing would collapse.
[He puts so little trust in adults, but who can really blame him.]
Yeah. The first time the brat and I did this we agreed to have a rule that anyone 15 or older could hang out at the farm as long as they helped with the upkeep. No leeching when you can contribute.
I'm going to keep the same rule, but I don't expect any of those kids to help with emergencies. They can keep the fridge stocked or feed the damn goat instead.
Whether or not we're welcome at the farm, there's no conditions on when I and those I work with will help you, and especially not anyone who might count as a child. In short, if there is an emergency and you don't call on me, I will be quite offended.
[What. What is this. Whenever an adult is this direct with him it's because they're being insincere or want something or whatever.
Except this is Harold and he wouldn't be lying, which means - what? He seriously just said he's offering unconditional support?
He's going to stare at that message for a few minutes, then type out a message in reply, then erase it. That happens a few more times before he finally figures out what to send.]
[Oh goddamnit, it is completely unfair of him to be saying that, because that's the whole reason for the space to begin with. It's the whole reason he gives this much of a shit about younger kids in general - so they don't have to lose out on their childhood like he did, like the clones did, like Last Order did.
It really pisses him off. He hates this.]
Fine. I'll keep you in mind in case of any emergencies.
[ He's not trying to be pointedly personal, honestly, he just thinks Accelerator can handle his unvarnished opinions by now and sees no reason to withhold them. ]
Thank you.
For the record, you absolutely can and should give some individuals special treatment. I would never tell you to trust anyone and everyone, but it's equally absurd to trust no one. I don't think that's exactly the message we want to impart to children.
[ Okay, he really can't resist asking this one -- he knows some hints but Accelerator has never said explicitly. And apparently they're asking each other personal questions now. ]
Why did you go to prison? I'm sure you're there because you want to be.
[He doesn't particularly care about explaining it, since he's gotten good at controlling ]
I handed myself over as the start of a massive coordinated operation with law enforcement to clean up the dark side of the city. The entire damn system is broken and I'm fixing it, but doing that means I can't have any exceptions, especially not for myself. People need to see that even the person at the very top isn't exempt from the consequences of breaking the law.
The charges listed in the file Aurora has on me weren't exaggerated, I was convicted of every single one.
There is a grand tradition of governing while imprisoned.
I see what you mean. In that sense, I agree. Laws must be applied equally -- but our personal trust should not be. Those are two different things.
A functioning society is meant to impose limits on our biases, because the reality is that we all have them. Convincing yourself you don't is the first step to being controlled by them entirely.
The fucking founder planned for failure, so he made sure something like that wouldn't interfere with him running the city.
[And he inherited that. Fun stuff.]
I know I have biases. I want to make sure they don't get in the way of making the right choices when it comes to other people. The kids here. [Specifically, protecting them.] I need to work twice as hard as any adult, because a fucking adult is going to look at me and think I don't know anything. I have to be unbiased, because those shits are going to be biased against me.
[It happened back home and it feels like an inevitability here, so he wants to be prepared.]
You think being surprised I would help protect any child without conditions means you're successfully being unbiased?
This is a complicated topic. The truth is, rules don't always work. Laws can be unjust. And fairness is not equality. I designed the Machine initially as a set of algorithms, but if I thought that was all that was necessary to protect people, that's all it would have remained.
What made her finally work is when she learned how to care.
To misquote Jonathan Swift, you cannot apply reason to something that was not arrived at by reason in the first place. If we really value life, there must be exceptions.
Not accepting any help from adults, even you, makes me unbiased.
[It's simple and straightforward... and more than a little black and white and naive.]
So what, I should just accept that I'm going to be biased. I should fucking embrace it and let there be exceptions, and then if other adults complain tell them to screw off?
[Okay, that's putting it in really aggressive terms, but it's an honest question.]
Treating everyone the same is a seductively simple solution, isn't it? But if I did that I'd be telling you to go to school and give up your responsibilities.
It's an element of careful judgment when to allow an exception, but there must be some, yes. And if you trust your own judgment in that regard then, yes, everyone else can screw off. I assure you I do not take external input on everything I do.
[... He thinks that in spite of everything he's been saying, he's glad Harold isn't treating him the same as everyone. He hates it when people want him to go to school, and he doesn't want to give up on the responsibilities he's taken on.]
What happens when your trust towards your own judgment wavers?
[It's a hard question to ask. He'd like to say he's confident in his own judgment, but.....]
I felt that, recently. When I was back home, and stopped Aleister. I wasn't sure if doing that was the right decision.
If it didn't ever waver, you wouldn't be able to trust it at all.
I don't have a better answer for you then that. It's different in each case. Sometimes it's a sign you need more information, or you're making a decision that isn't yours to make. And sometimes it's just personal weakness, that you know what you need to do but are looking for a way out.
When you stopped him from performing necromancy, you mean? Because you missed your... I don't know their name, but you were adamant you're not friends.
[ He thinks immediately of Grace, and how hard it was to keep himself from going near her, how he'd had to set an alarm on his phone to stop himself from getting too close. He'd constantly questioned that decision, for the same reason Accelerator was probably questioning stopping Aleister. ]
Putting aside a base level distrust toward anyone named Aleister Crowley, and even putting aside that I have no idea what the possible ramifications of necromancy might be, altering the natural order of things should always be approached with extreme caution. I would be very reluctant to make an exception.
If it's not right for you to decide who dies, I don't think it's right for you to decide who gets to live, either.
[Is overthinking the same as introspection? He isn't really sure, but he does the former a lot.
(There is far too much introspection going on in his head at all times, admitting it is just hard.)
Strangely enough, that seems harder to wrap his head around than the moral stance Harold is offering. That somehow makes sense.]
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess that's a good way of thinking about it. I shouldn't be deciding who dies.
[Even though he's killed people before, he doesn't have the right to be deciding that. Killing people is wrong and whenever he does it he knows he has to shoulder that burden. This isn't a situation he's encountered before, but he can see the logic in treating the opposite the same way.]
Being in Etraya gives me loads of time to think some more about this, huh?
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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[He puts so little trust in adults, but who can really blame him.]
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[AKA he's had to grow up fast, so there's no reason why other people can't be taking on more responsibility and maturity before they hit adulthood.]
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Yeah. The first time the brat and I did this we agreed to have a rule that anyone 15 or older could hang out at the farm as long as they helped with the upkeep. No leeching when you can contribute.
I'm going to keep the same rule, but I don't expect any of those kids to help with emergencies. They can keep the fridge stocked or feed the damn goat instead.
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Whether or not we're welcome at the farm, there's no conditions on when I and those I work with will help you, and especially not anyone who might count as a child. In short, if there is an emergency and you don't call on me, I will be quite offended.
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Except this is Harold and he wouldn't be lying, which means - what? He seriously just said he's offering unconditional support?
He's going to stare at that message for a few minutes, then type out a message in reply, then erase it. That happens a few more times before he finally figures out what to send.]
Fuck.
What the fuck am I supposed to do with that.
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[ That's kind of the point of it being unconditional. ]
As much as I can insulate the children here from becoming an adult as early as you did, I will.
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It really pisses him off. He hates this.]
Fine. I'll keep you in mind in case of any emergencies.
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Thank you.
For the record, you absolutely can and should give some individuals special treatment. I would never tell you to trust anyone and everyone, but it's equally absurd to trust no one. I don't think that's exactly the message we want to impart to children.
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I don't know about that. If I did I wouldn't have gone to prison back home.
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Why did you go to prison? I'm sure you're there because you want to be.
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I handed myself over as the start of a massive coordinated operation with law enforcement to clean up the dark side of the city. The entire damn system is broken and I'm fixing it, but doing that means I can't have any exceptions, especially not for myself. People need to see that even the person at the very top isn't exempt from the consequences of breaking the law.
The charges listed in the file Aurora has on me weren't exaggerated, I was convicted of every single one.
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I see what you mean. In that sense, I agree. Laws must be applied equally -- but our personal trust should not be. Those are two different things.
A functioning society is meant to impose limits on our biases, because the reality is that we all have them. Convincing yourself you don't is the first step to being controlled by them entirely.
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[And he inherited that. Fun stuff.]
I know I have biases. I want to make sure they don't get in the way of making the right choices when it comes to other people. The kids here. [Specifically, protecting them.] I need to work twice as hard as any adult, because a fucking adult is going to look at me and think I don't know anything. I have to be unbiased, because those shits are going to be biased against me.
[It happened back home and it feels like an inevitability here, so he wants to be prepared.]
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This is a complicated topic. The truth is, rules don't always work. Laws can be unjust. And fairness is not equality. I designed the Machine initially as a set of algorithms, but if I thought that was all that was necessary to protect people, that's all it would have remained.
What made her finally work is when she learned how to care.
To misquote Jonathan Swift, you cannot apply reason to something that was not arrived at by reason in the first place. If we really value life, there must be exceptions.
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[It's simple and straightforward... and more than a little black and white and naive.]
So what, I should just accept that I'm going to be biased. I should fucking embrace it and let there be exceptions, and then if other adults complain tell them to screw off?
[Okay, that's putting it in really aggressive terms, but it's an honest question.]
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It's an element of careful judgment when to allow an exception, but there must be some, yes. And if you trust your own judgment in that regard then, yes, everyone else can screw off. I assure you I do not take external input on everything I do.
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What happens when your trust towards your own judgment wavers?
[It's a hard question to ask. He'd like to say he's confident in his own judgment, but.....]
I felt that, recently. When I was back home, and stopped Aleister. I wasn't sure if doing that was the right decision.
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I don't have a better answer for you then that. It's different in each case. Sometimes it's a sign you need more information, or you're making a decision that isn't yours to make. And sometimes it's just personal weakness, that you know what you need to do but are looking for a way out.
When you stopped him from performing necromancy, you mean? Because you missed your... I don't know their name, but you were adamant you're not friends.
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I didn't miss him. [He missed him, he just can't admit it.] But, yeah. That.
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[ He thinks immediately of Grace, and how hard it was to keep himself from going near her, how he'd had to set an alarm on his phone to stop himself from getting too close. He'd constantly questioned that decision, for the same reason Accelerator was probably questioning stopping Aleister. ]
Putting aside a base level distrust toward anyone named Aleister Crowley, and even putting aside that I have no idea what the possible ramifications of necromancy might be, altering the natural order of things should always be approached with extreme caution. I would be very reluctant to make an exception.
If it's not right for you to decide who dies, I don't think it's right for you to decide who gets to live, either.
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[Is overthinking the same as introspection? He isn't really sure, but he does the former a lot.
(There is far too much introspection going on in his head at all times, admitting it is just hard.)
Strangely enough, that seems harder to wrap his head around than the moral stance Harold is offering. That somehow makes sense.]
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess that's a good way of thinking about it. I shouldn't be deciding who dies.
[Even though he's killed people before, he doesn't have the right to be deciding that. Killing people is wrong and whenever he does it he knows he has to shoulder that burden. This isn't a situation he's encountered before, but he can see the logic in treating the opposite the same way.]
Being in Etraya gives me loads of time to think some more about this, huh?